Lair List – Pickup Artist and Seduction Lairs

One of the main purposes of a lair is to help new guys achieve the skills with women they want. Having lair meetings, a forum to discuss new topics, and regular events where guys can meet up and network in the field are all great things about lairs to support new guys in their journey to being a pickup artist.

But often, however, they are simply not enough. A lot of guys can be timid. They may not acknowledge their weaknesses and thus may never be able to improve. They might be active on the forum but scarce going out to the field. Or simply, they might not see immediate improvement and give up being in the lair altogether.

A big brother program is a simple concept that has been successfully implemented in many top lairs around the world. Basically it works like this:

When a new guy joins the lair, he’s immediately paired off with one of the longer serving members. Somebody who can take him out one on one, show some different techniques, openers, routine stacks, and other tactics guys in the lair do.

Most importantly, he can teach the new member how to wing, and proper wing etiquette. That way more skilled members don’t get discourage when their sets get jacked up by a FNG (fucking new guy) who is clueless about what he’s doing.

Teaching proper wing etiquette prior to entry in the lair is beneficial to everyone. New guys in the lair need to be taught properly. Having one on one attention can serve this purpose immensely. Much more than simply being invited out to a lair gathering.

Plus, it allows guys to get networked much more quickly than otherwise.

As most lair leaders know, the attrition rate of new members is usually very low. Often lairs receive endless emails from guys looking to get better and take their game to the next level. But when being invited out to a lair event, the amount of guys who show up is very low.

Having a big brother program to integrate new guys is a really good way to make sure their not getting lost in the fray. Especially as lairs grow bigger and bigger.

Think about implementing a big brother program in your lair. At your next lair meeting, see how many active guys would be receptive to volunteering for it. The results may surprise you.

Keyboard Jockeys, KJ’s, or whatever other name they may acquire, everybody in a lair knows who they are. They always have the advice no matter which question is posed, yet they are never out in the field nor have field reports on their own.

They have every excuse in the book:
“I’m not really working on it right now”
“I have to get some things in my life together first before I can really work on pickup”
“I have 3 girls in my harem you guys don’t know about so I don’t really need to pickup anymore”

Yet when it comes to proving their wild claims, they always seem to disappear. They post in the forums multiple times a day, have the highest post counts, show up to every lair meeting, but when it comes to actually meeting out in the field, they’re always a no-show.

The thing about KJ’s is a lot of times they really do have good advice. They know everything “by the book” and will tell you how easy it all is, yet they have little real world experience with it themselves. Thus, they can often be deceiving especially to newbies who are taking their advice verbatim.

A good lair leader will always look out for keyboard jockeys. It might not seem like a big deal at first but a few KJ’s have the ability to make a lair not fun anymore. Everyone wants constructive criticism. If one has sticking points they want to resolve it helps to get outside points of view. Yet nobody wants to get shouted down by a KJ.

The biggest problem will keyboard jockeys is that deep down they are usually validation seeking. They get their validation in pickup through the lair and “helping” new guys. Yet if they were to get out in the field themselves they would lose that validation, and would have to admit first hand that they have a lot of work themselves in understanding social dynamics. Thus, they avoid the field at all costs, they avoid demonstrating their skills in front of others, and they avoid peer review. All the while they criticize everyone else’s viewpoints but their own.

When called out, KJ’s have the capability to turn into full-on trolls disrupting the forum. They may attempt to gather favor with new guys and other lair members to turn people against one another. The end result may weaken morale and attempt to fracture the lair.

Thus, lairs should take steps to avoid keyboard jockeys from dominating the forum. Certain rules can be applicable to everyone. Such as:

Everyone has to post 1 field report a month
Everyone has to attend one lair event per month.
Everyone has to make a certain amount of approaches per night

Etcetera. If these rules are not met, the individual is instantly put on probabation, and eventually expelled if they cannot meet the simple requirements. These requirement s can be enshrined in the lair constitution to make them official.

Of course, each lair has a different set of circumstances and thus different possible solutions to the matter, and the above only serves as a theoretical example.

The most important thing to remember is KJ’s need help too. By pushing them to go out and approach and be subject to criticism by their peers they will see their flaws and where they need help. They will be thankful that they were pushed to go out and improve rather than their natural inclination to sit on the sidelines.

As lairs grow larger and guys skill with women increases, some guys are inevitably going to look into how to profit off the lair. A good lair leader will tread carefully when going in this direction, as leaders who bring the lair into a purely commercial direction will probably result in splits in the community, the emergence of new lairs, and probably being taken off of the lair list. Before you know it, the old lair might becoming nothing more than a struggling seduction school competing with some of the major companies of there. Such a decision can have irreversible consequences.

However, sometimes tolerating certain commercial aspects can have a positive influence on the lair as a whole. For instance, sometimes resident seduction gurus will remain active in their community in exchange for a little free promotion. As long as everyone knows that nobody is pressured to accept being pushed into training or coaching services, having a skilled and notable contributors can have an encouraging outcome on new members and the morale of the group.

Additionally, many of your old and seasoned members may move on to joint ventures with top PUA companies. Can they really be expected to refrain from any commercial activities with their old lair? Even so much as a simple announcement?

Discussions of what commercial activities should center on the limits of how much promotion and advertising should be allowed in the lair. Whether to have a commercial only forum on your website, whether guys can recruit for bootcamps or coaching services, or whether to have your own products. As lair leaders, the most important aspect to consider is keeping the integrity of the lair. If guys feel that the integrity of the lair has been compromised in order to make certain people money then disputes will arise. Most often these disputes will result in a split in the lair. And if new guys feel they are being pressured to buy products, they will probably leave.

Sometimes a grey area can develop when Lairs begin having dues or “lair funds”. It may be a simple passing around of the hat or an official requirement each month. Lairs do have certain amount of costs that need to be upkeep. Websites, guest speakers, convention halls, venues, VIP tables, official events, etc, can grow to accumulate a large tab. When the lair dabbles in commercial activity for profit, sometime, these funds which were supposed to support the lair may be compromised.

Lair leaders should refrain from the commercial aspects of pickup to resolve any conflict of interest that may arise. They shouldn’t be compelled to sway people towards a certain pickup company because they profit of it. Thus, lairs as a whole should maintain their integrity by keeping neutral leaders in place that can best make decisions for the whole group.

By keeping yourself clear of any conflicts of interest, you will have more clarity to resolve disputes, make good decisions on what commercial activities to allow, which ones to ban, and keep the lair free of disputes that result on splitting up the lair.

A reader writes:

What’s the deal with the different Lair Lists? I see different lists all over the place and they all list different lairs? One says there’s a lair in my area, another says there are two, and another doesn’t have any listed?

Here’s the deal: There is exactly ONE official lair list, and that is the lair list at FastSeduction.com. Every other list has been pulled from the fast seduction list.

FastSeduction made the official list many years ago in the early days of seduction community. To make spreading the information easier, they freely allowed other PUA sites the ability to host the lair list. The problem? Many of these sites haven’t updated their lair page in years. Some of them passed have been sold or passed on to commercial entities. Atleast one lair list has been known to pull down links to official lairs and replace them with their own commercial links. This is highly problematic, has newbie PUA’s looking for a lair are not only presented outdated information, they are also often forwarded to commercial providers looking to sell bootcamps and products.

This creates a highly confusing situation when aspiring pickup artists look for lairs in the area, often causing them to give up their search.

These outdated lists include Bristollair and Cliffslist, both of which have not been updated since at least 2005-2006.

How come these sites don’t update their listings?

It’s ridiculously easy to update their listing of the official lair list. One problem may be that a lot of their site owners simply hired web designers to design their site, and once finished have never had knowledgeable staff on board to keep afloat with the changing information. Another may be that they simply don’t care enough. Or possibly, they intentional desire outdated and confusing information so they can push their own training programs on newbie PUA’s. Whatever the case, we will never know, as they don’t seem to answer emails concerning this question.

So what can lair members do to help rectify the situation?

Make sure that all your websites, blogs, and more all link to the Fastseduction Lair List. The more times that people see that the more they will realize it is the only official and up to date lair directory on the Internet. Any other lair directory is either a feed of the Lair List at best, or at worst is an outdated script with commercial links.

Any time you see sites linking to other lair lists, be sure to send an email or comment notifying them that the information is deprecated.

Since the beginning of the pickup artist community, many guys begin questioning whether the terminology and jargon we use is inherently uncool.

A lot of people think that the terms we use: PUA, Pickup Artist, and Lairs, are naturally creepy and actually serve to regress our lifestyle more than it helps.

Instead of integrating ourselves with positive aspects of our life, it segregates us into our own click of “PUAs” who are in the know, away from “naturals” “AFC s” and “Chodes”. Instead of going out at night and having a good time, we end up going “sarging” as if we are on some sort of undercover mission that nobody can know about in our attempts to seduce women.

Or, is that paragraph just a load of bullshit from somebody that takes it all too seriously themselves? Discuss.

It’s an interesting question as many guys are increasingly avoiding the stereotypical terms that the PUA community has often used. It may be a backlash against the whole subculture created mostly by guys meeting on the internet, often irrespective of one’s skill with women.

Thus, if we extend that line of thinking, should we even be calling ourselves lairs? Let’s take a look at what some of the other guys are doing on the lair list.

Most of us, of course, are still officially being called lairs. Usually combined with whatever geographical location we are in. However, as new lairs spring up and whatever was the “first” lair in an area no longer really equating to be the “official” lair, you can see a lot of groups are breaking out of that mindset.

Some are replacing it with the word “society”, such as the Toronto Phoenix Society or the West Lafayette Seduction Society. Others embrace the social aspects of their club, like the Kingston Social Network. Many guys are going old schook with the moniker player, ie, the Player’s Los Angeles Yahoo Group, or simply “Play” for short.

Sometimes it depends on the lair. If it is a more more fraternal organization the group might emphasize themselves as a “brotherhood” to separate themselves from a simple forum where guys meetup. Others show has they get active: “The NYC Sarge Team”, to select a group of ‘profesional sargers’.

Whatever the case, lairs are moving beyond the often boring “(location) + Lair” and really getting descriptive with their titles. It can often be a method of marketing in cities with multiple lairs. And with the earliest lairs passing on their leadership again and again, and the old leaders often getting out of the game, whichever lair was “earliest” probably means very little to the new guy just picking up his first copy of “The Game”.

Depending on how your lair is structured, or what your groups goals are as far as organizing, think about reflecting some of that in how you choose your title.